There was an incident at the park the other day. I witnessed, and ultimately tried to stop, a sad display of hatred towards children.
I have written about unkindness I’ve seen in public before. Two I can think of right off the bat were Natalie’s mother, and the old man at the grocery store. In those two cases though, I was a silent observer. Just another person in the crowd, watching what was unfolding, and not doing anything to stop it. This time I was a participant. Right there in the front lines as it were. I voluntarily inserted myself into the situation, boldly hoping for…. well, I don’t know what I was hoping for. I just knew I had to do it.
But I should start at the beginning.
It was a Friday, and most Fridays we’re at park day. I say “most” Fridays because I often try to get out of it. Not because I don’t have a good time (I do), and not because the other mothers aren’t wonderful (they are). Just because I’m a homebody and an introvert, and the thought of socializing for hours with dozens of other people makes me… tired. But this Friday, we were there.
The boys were all off with their friends clear across the park, playing football or frisbee, or whatever it is that they do. Tegan (almost 4) had just run across the playground with our friend Hannah (11), settling in to play in one of her favorite spots: the shady spot in the sand under the little kids’ playground.
They hadn’t been playing for long before Hannah came running back over to us, telling us that “an old lady had yelled at them,” and had told her and some other older kids that they had to leave the area because it was for younger kids only. We looked over and saw the lady in question, a couple of preteens simply hanging out and chatting, a toddler happily undisturbed in his play, and Tegan, still quietly sitting in the sand.
We told her she was fine, and that there were no hard and fast rules about who could play where. Besides, she was there with Tegan, clearly a “younger kid”, and was in essence acting as her caregiver.
A few minutes later, she came back to tell us that the lady had called them “stupid.” Now, I didn’t want to jump to conclusions. Not because I didn’t trust Hannah’s word, but because I know that sometimes when you’re already feeling downtrodden that it’s easy to misinterpret. Maybe the woman had used the word “stupid” but hadn’t actually directed at anyone in particular.
So I waited, and I watched. Eventually the woman left the area to sit on a bench, and as more and more kids – of all ages – gathered to play on and around the equipment, she eyed them. Oh how she eyed them! Tegan wanted me to dig with her in the sand, in the middle of the playground, so I had a front row seat when the woman went from eying to acting. She strode over to where the kids were playing, and just as Hannah had reported, ordered them to leave. I couldn’t hear the entire conversation, but I could clearly hear her as she shouted, “You stupid kids!”
I got up and approached her.
(Let me stop here for a minute. If you’ve read my blog for any length of time you know that I DO NOT LIKE confrontations. Do not. Even over the internet, I have to be pretty provoked, it gives me a stomach ache, and I stress about it for days. So you can imagine my enthusiasm for the real-life variety)
But there I was, striding across the sand, feeling all Erin Brockovich.
“Excuse me,” I said to her, interrupting her as she demanded that one of the little boys take her to his mother. “I was just wondering why you’re calling these children stupid?”
“They are stupid! They’re disrespectful little brats who are blatantly disregarding the law, and this legal notice for them to stay away from this equipment.” She waved her arm at the sign in front of the playground. “This is for little kids only.”
“M’aam, I really don’t think that sign is a law. Those are just suggested ages.”
“THAT’S NOT WHAT IT SAYS!”
I wanted to get the full story, I really did. If they were truly doing something wrong, I wanted to know about it. From what I could see, they’d simply been playing, until she harrassed them. So I calmly asked, “Were they disrupting any little kids at all? Getting in their way, hurting anyone?”
“No, but they’re hurting the equipment!! It’s not designed for bigger kids.”
And she wasn’t done. “And when I told them they needed to leave, these stupid kids did not respect me as an authority figure. They have no respect for authority.”
“Well, to be honest with you, I would have a hard time respecting someone who was resorting to calling me stupid too.”
“I don’t have to show respect for children!! We don’t have to respect children. But they are supposed to show respect to adults no matter what!”
(Oh no she DID NOT just say that. But sadly, she did.)
“Kids have just as much right to be treated with respect as – ” she cut me off then, and started shaking her head.
“Go ahead, defend them, and they’ll grow up never respecting authority, never having any respect for anyone, thinking they can do whatever they want….. Stupid disrespectful kids…”
“Well, maybe if you tried talking to them without name calling…”
She’d pretty much turned her back on me by then, shaking her head and scoffing, “Say what you want. They’re disrespectful kids. Black is black.”
Now – in the interest of fairness – I have to say that somewhere in the middle of all of this, one child (out of the group of at least a dozen that had gathered around us) had started arguing back with her, telling her to “shut up”, and at one point returning one of her “you’re stupid kids” with a “well, you’re old!” Was that the right way to handle the situation? Of course it wasn’t. I’m not arguing that. But was he provoked? Absolutely. And at what I’m guessing to be about 10, he lacks the maturity that one would hope the 60-something year old lady he was arguing with should have possessed. And honestly, with her attitude and flat-out assertion that she doesn’t need to show respect for kids, I don’t blame him for his feelings.
I wish I could say that there was a tidy ending to my story, but there was not. It just…. fizzled. It ended with her turning away from me in a huff, realizing that I wasn’t going to stop defending the kids; and me realizing that she was not going to stop calling them “stupid” long enough to listen to anything I had to say. I ultimately told the kids to just let it go, and that they’d maybe be better off playing elsewhere. Ironically, park day was close to ending by then anyway, and moms were starting to gather up their kids to go home.
I walked away, my heart pounding in my chest, already thinking about what it was I’d actually accomplished. In many ways, I hadn’t accomplished much of anything. The woman clearly did not like children, and I’d done little to change her mind.
I wish she would’ve heard me. I wish I could have told her that when you realize that children are people, when you treat them with respect, when you treat them the way you wish to be treated, that they (just like their adult counterparts) will respond in kind. How much differently it all would have turned out if she’d just talked to them instead of calling them names!
But what I had done – besides gaining the confidence that comes from doing something I would have been too afraid to do even a couple of years ago – was stand up for the kids. Not by thinking about it, not by sitting behind my computer and writing about it, but by literally standing up, walking over there, looking that woman in the eye, and saying, “Hey, kids deserve respect too.”
I stood up for the kids, and I would do it again.
Wow, and in a very level-headed manner too–way to walk the walk, mama. I would have been responding with more anger at her for speaking to my children/their friends in this way–I would not have been the model of peaceful conflict resolution or respect, unfortunately. I think mama bear would have outweighed mindful teacher. So kudos to you!
How sad that we live in a world where adults think that kids don’t need to be respected. How are they to learn to respect if they aren’t shown respect?
And you absolutely accomplished something. You stood up for those children and those children saw that. They saw the respectful way that you handled that unrespectful woman. By acting as you did, in a calm and respectful manner, you gave all those children (not just your own) a real life lesson.
That would have had my blood boiling, too. Have you ever read Rosenberg’s Nonviolent Communication? This scenario sounds like it would have been ripe for NVC. I’d be willing to bet that this woman has had a run-in with older kids in the past, that her harshness stems from a hurt. That doesn’t excuse what she did, but Rosenberg would advise to let her hash out some of those feelings – she may just want to be heard. Once she feels heard, the hope would be that she could calm down enough to see your point as well. NVC is such a work in progress for me – it’s much easier to apply it to a situation you’re not emotionally invested in 😉
At any rate, good for you for speaking up for the kids.I completely agree that children deserve our respect- and you also spoke respectfully to the woman! You were a wonderful role model.
I’ve never read that, but it sounds like I need to! Thank you.
Wow. You did so much in those moments. Like Carrie said, you stood up for the kids and you were SEEN by them to do so. Imagine how they must feel about that, to know they were right to feel harassed, and imagine they lesson they saw about how you stayed calm and consistant and stood up for them. You left a powerful life lesson with many of those young people. Hoorah to you and your courage in doing what needed doing.
This lady is exactly what my mum is. But she quotes scriptures at me, so i quote them right back. WE are their EXAMPLE. TREAT as we want to be TREATED. etc etc. i know them all. just try me lady. you won’t win.
You did well. i certainly wouldn’t have let her continue like that. but then i would have been no better than her. some ppl will not change. and they arent worth the effort. i’ve learnt that i cant change everyone, and as long as im open, honest and treating my kids and all ppl right, then thats all i can do.
Wonderful way to handle a tricky situation. As a parent of a 13 month old, I’m constantly reminded of the out of this world expectations adults have of children. There are plenty of folks who feel kids should be seen and not heard and even more who feel justified in saying something outrageous to a child. Like yourself, I’m not a fan of confrontation, but I’ve quickly had to get over that since my daughter was born. I’m amazed at how people will cross boundaries with no regard.
For all we know she is mentally ill. You can’t expect to change the minds of an old person. Keep in mind when she was a kid it was accepted by most that you don’t have to be nice to kids. They’re just kids, they have to respect adults etc. also keep in mind these changes, different parenting styles, gay rights, etc are probably scary to a lonely old woman.
Also as you said you can’t hold a ten year olds behavior to the same standard as an adults, but that adult can’t be held to the same standard as other adults if their mental capacity has started to detoriate. I would even say that old woman caused the child to act inappropriately because the woman was setting the example. Kids do look at older people to see how to act just like the woman wanted, it’s just they look at the way adults act instead of just listening to an adult tell them how to act.
Basically, you did the right thing standing up for the kids and there is nothing you could have done different to change that woman’s mind.
We went to the park today, and before I saw this post, I wondered how you would see us. Talking to our children with respect is a constant work in progress for us-that’s how it is, and we’re constantly trying to be mindful of how we are with them. They see, learn, and repeat how they are treated. I love how you provided them with that learning experience-even if it didn’t go the way you had intended. With life there are only so many variables we can control, and how we deal with negativity is one of them. Thank you for sharing your experience.
You did a good thing.
Thank you! You empowered the children, while remaining respectful towards the woman. This is an important model, for them to witness compassion and respect- expressed appropriately. Sadly, my hunch is that the woman was most likely emotionally disturbed, psychologically unbalanced in some way and was not equipped to behave well, so she will continue to behave badly. As a psychologist- I might also let the kids know that it is very sad- that she may be limited and to disengage rather than to engage with angry, limited people. You never know when things will escalate. Good mommy-ing!
Good on you, you never know what you may have got her thinking about… and the way she kept repeating the same phrase – sounds as though that may have been the way she was spoken to as a child.
This reminds me of a time a grocery store and I saw a young girl (9 or 10) come up to her mother and ask her for something. The mother grabbed her arm and shook the girl a bit with each word “What (shake) did (shake) I (shake) tell (shake) you (shake)!” Me, walking by, *saying* to my husband (purposefully saying it loud enough so this mother could hear me) “That may not be abuse, but it is darn sure seems close to it”. I looked at the girl, and strolled on with my shopping. About 10 minutes later, that mother came up to me (had she really been looking for me all that time!) and said ” I do not abuse my children” I looked straight at her “If that’s what you think”. At that time, there was nothing to really do, except I wanted that *mother* to know that people were watching and willing to say something. I hoped it would help her control herself, or give pause, even for a bit that day.
Sheesh! That’s just sad! You didn’t mention her being with anyone, like the grandmother of a little child, as far as I can tell. What was she doing there? It sounds like she was just an angry old woman with a chip on her shoulder out to prove a point and validate her already negative opinion. Sadly you can’t do anything to “convince” people like that. Unfortunately she will continue to be a sad and angry woman with a warped view of children (I hope she DOESN’T have grandchildren). It’s sad that children have to see older people, who should be an example of wisdom, peace and love, acting so hateful and angry. But good for you for taking a stand! I know how hard that is. You’re awesome!
Good Job Jen! You stood up for children, it was the right thing to do. That lady won’t forget what you said even if she disagrees with it, seeds can still be planted. I can’t stand people who say things like that about kids. How can they learn respect if it’s never been shown to them?
Good for you, Jen! It really baffles me how adults will treat children as if they are “things” and not a miniature version of an adult themselves! At least you showed the kids how to be appropriate in talking to such a person and how to go about dealing with such a person.
NO CHILD SHOULD BE CALLED STUPID – EVER…even if they are breaking the law! ugh….
Good on you! You accomplished something wonderful by actively demonstrating to those kids that not all adults see them as “less than” because of their ages. Thank you for speaking up!
I am so proud of you!! Proud of you to have done something I am doing more and more even if, like you, I find it very challenging (you know, I have this disease: the disease to please), but standing up for children is extremely important and even if it didn’t change her opinion, it did change something for the children who say you defend them. Bravo!
I know it’s hard to get involved. I’ve always been taught to “mind your own business” but when a child is involved, I just can’t. One day my husband and I took our daughter to the park. We were on the swings when another dad brought his toddler son over to the bucket swing next to us. The dad started swinging the boy really high and the boy was crying–he was scared, he was saying, “Daddy! Too high! Stop!” to which the dad replied “You’re fine. Don’t be a sissy.” This went on for what felt like an eternity. I was conflicted with what to do. My heart was telling me to say something, but my head was telling me to stay out of it. Ultimately I decided to say, “Your son seems genuinely scared. Maybe you could go a little easier.” The dad did not take kindly to my words–he again said, “He’s fine” but then he abruptly stopped swinging him, pulled him out of the swing, and told him they were leaving. The boy cried all the way to the car then the dad “peeled” out of the parking lot (screaching tires and all). I could’t help but feel that I made the situation worse after that by angering the dad (I had visions of him taking his anger out on his son). That was 2 years ago and I’ll never forget it. Thank You for sticking up for those children. It definitely takes guts.
This is the quote I added to my post when I posted this to fb…”when you realize that children are people, when you treat them with respect, when you treat them the way you wish to be treated, that they (just like their adult counterparts) will respond in kind.”
I think this is a real problem in our world and you said it perfectly here.
I feel sad for that lady…if you think about what had to have been her life as a little kids in order for her to end up like this…so sad that the way she was parented has robbed her of joy and happiness and fellowship as an “old” lady… 🙁 (that kid’s comeback was kinda’ funny…not nice…but make me smirk)
Thanks for posting this…and for standing up IRL for kids. 🙂
My 8yo daughter was on the periphery of this and saw you stand up for the kids, Jen. THANK YOU for taking care of our children!
We’re more likely to have older folks coming over and telling us how pleasant it is to see multiple ages playing together nicely rather than shoving the little kids out of the way the way the public schooled kids do (I am quoting here, not voicing my own opinion!). I wonder if the old lady had seen incidents where the bigger kids really were taking over the little kids’ equipment and she was reacting to her expectation in that, rather than what she actually saw.
Regardless, she was totally out of line and I’m so happy that you were there for the kids, Jen!
WAY TO GO!!! From one introvert who hates confrontation to another: SO proud of you!!!
I agree that children need to be treated with respect. I wonder, what was that lady doing in the park? She obviously wasn’t there with kids. If she hates kids so much why would she go there? Alas, pointless questions.
Let us continue to respect our children, in spite of old ladies at the park.
Yes – thank you so much, Jen! My daughter was one of the initial children that the woman started yelling at. She was telling me all the way home about this lady and how mean she was. I only wish she had come and told us about her earlier. I had no idea what was going on nor did I know that you had stood up for the kids – but I’m so grateful you did. It was such an unnecessary situation. When she initially began berating the kids, our kids apologized and she kept telling the toddler she was with that she shouldn’t grow up to be like those “stupid girls”. That was hurtful and rude – and our girls were shocked and insulted. No one had ever talked to them or referred to them in that way ever before. It was a shocking lesson on how ugly some people are in this world. Hopefully, the little girl that was with her has other positive influences in her life so that she will not grow up to be jaded and cruel. Fortunately, our kids have a firm foundation in love and security so that this incident did not leave any permanent damage.
I just wanted to add a quick note, too, that this “exclusive” 2-5 year old playground is in the same sand pit and not really set apart at all. All of the kids play and converge on both play structures since they are so close together – and there’s really no delineation between the two. I didn’t even realize that they were separated in any way (not having toddlers anymore). The kids had no realization at all that they were possibly intruding – our girls are so sweet that if she had simply asked if they minded playing elsewhere, they would have done so quite willingly and politely.
I was looking forward to seeing your post on this. The mama bear in me would have liked to have told the woman to leave – fortunately it was you and not me.
I read this post when you first published it. So, this has been coming back into my mind randomly and not infrequently for 2.5 months now. It sounds like a horrible situation all the way around. I think that anyone who might read this blog (folks like the 60 something year old woman at the park probably wouldn’t) can quite easily see the horror of the woman’s response to and treatment of the children. I wholeheartedly agree with you that she should not have spoken just about any, if any, of what she spoke to the kids. And this is an easy thing to write because it’s just So obvious and because it’s so obviously acceptable to say here in this place.
But there was something else that has been niggling my brain and heart these months. I didn’t stop my life to really think about it when the image would pop into my brain — until finally it popped in too many times to ignore it anymore. And I figured it out.
I imagine this old woman, in a heart place we have no idea about, getting more and more aggravated and obviously amped up and hysterical at the kids’ disregard for anything she’s saying/for her, then, at the height of the amped up situation, in strides a grown up who starts to, at least superficially, argue the relative merits of the whether Old Woman is right or wrong about the kids being not/permitted on teh playarea.
It seems safe to say from reading the story, that the woman was now hysterical not because the children were on the playarea, but because of the children’s reaction to her. We know, becasue Jennifer shared it, that Jennifer was interested in how the children were being treated by this woman. So, in fact, neither Jennifer nor Old Woman were that preoccupied with the argument of the playspace permissiblity; but about how the children were treating the Old Woman and how the Old Woman was treating the Children. The conversation started about the playspace,not about the real issue of “Please do not speak to these people/children that way.” And because it began as an issue of who was Right and who was Wrong about the playspace, it became an argument on the 0bjective merits of the permissibility and, thusly, a Necessarily Adversarial interaction between Jennifer and Old Woman. There Had to be a winner and a loser in the end. This is especially sad because it seems plain that neither Old Woman nor Jennifer were most concerned, by this point, about the playspace rules, but about how the children and Old Woman were treating each other.
And this I came to after much thought. But the thing that didn’t need any thought and gave me the visceral “ick” feeling that Jennifer has so aptly talked about in other posts is the moment in the story where Jennifer talks about the dozen or so kids who had gathered round and were randomly shouting out insults; emboldened by their grown up battling with The Other grown up on the kids’ behalf. The whole mental image of that is disheartening and gives me that “ick.” I feel the cornered-dog, outnumbered by a band of bullies feeling for her. I imagine these random insults being shot from various sides. I totally understand why the children did it. I have actually witnessed adults doing the same thing in a similar situation (super ick). I think that children, having been bullied by this Old Woman and powerless felt that POWER of the group led by a strong peer of the Old Woman and seized it, hurling projectile insults from behind the safety of their Champion Grownup. As Jennifer said, the kids should not have been doing that, but it is understandable why they did.
Thinking about how the Old Woman under a barrage of insults without any allies of her own makes me feel sad.
Nothing can be done about most of this. Hindsight is always 20/20. And being in a confrontation, especially one that seems so random and unplanned and totally surprising, and when you are a person who feels overwhelmed by even the thought of conflict — this is a recipe for regret — I know, because that’s me. Jennifer can’t restart the conversation with Old Woman and make it about how people were treating each other. Jennifer can’t stop the children from their unacceptable, if understandable, attacks on Old Woman and say “Hey, stop that, we don’t personally attack people either. You didn’t like it when she called you things, you don’t call her things.” And given the woman a practical action lesson in what it is that Jennier was theoretically trying to show Old Woman with words.
One thing that can be done is to talk to the kids who were involved and re-visit the situation and talk about how telling others to treat others the way you want to be treated is nullified when you’re practically treating that person unkindly. The irony of Jennifer trying to lead Old Woman to a conclusion to treat people (the children) with respect while said people are standing behind Jennifer insulting Old Woman was not lost on me. And I think that the children involved thinking that somehow the Battle was Won when the Old Woman was defeated, dejected, relented and left, that somehow something Good Happened. I can see the benefit gleaned by the children and by the paretns of the children to Stand Up for the people being abused and disrespected. But I think that these children probably already know this lesson and see it lived out. On the other hand, the cost paid by the Old Woman who felt abused was high. And the cost paid by the children I would suspect after “The Battle of Insults and 13 Against 1” is that they left thinking more about hte Victory over the defeated, and less about how the Old Woman was unchanged and hurt, and how there is mercy and there is justice, there is love and there is battle.
So, maybe I’ll be able to let this go now from my unconscious brain. I hope so. And I hope that you see that I am not saying that I would have been Able to do anything any differently whatsoever at the time or pointing a finger of blame or something like that at you. I hate conflict. And, as you said, even internet conflict. If I thought that there wasn’t any possibility of something constructive coming out of my thoughts on this, I woudln’t share them because, did I mention, I don’t like conflict and also because there’s every reason Not to bring up the past and very few reasons to — and one of the reasons to bring it up is if the future could be better because of a rethinking of the past. And I like to think about the possibilities of goodness from re-visiting the whole scene with the kids involved. I hope that I haven’t offended you.
You absolutely haven’t offended me – and you made many good points – but your comment has left me sad. My intention was not to disparage this woman at all, nor to band up with the kids to bully her.
Having just read your post for the first time, then Mama’s comment and your response, I just feel like saying that it’s abundantly clear your intention was not to disparage or bully the woman.
Most people do not like conflict and avoid it when possible. What that means is that most of us don’t have much experience at it, when it does happen. One of the biggest realizations to come from parenting, for me, has been that when people say, “I don’t like it”, what that often unconsciously means is, “I feel like I am not good at doing it.”
Productive conflict is a skill that has to be individually learned, like any other, through trial, error, reflection, and trying again. No one is ever truly done learning. You showed courage in speaking up at the playground. Being willing to try is often the most difficult step!
It took courage for Mama to leave her comment as well. The two interactions are each so incredibly rich in wisdom. Thank you to both of you for your writing.