It was the first day of a new session of swimming lessons, and the girl next to my smiling daughter was screaming. Not just crying, but screaming. She was petrified, literally shaking from head to toe, calling out for her mother in between gasps. When her mother approached her, I at first thought she was there to do what I would have done: scoop her daughter up, hold her close, and tell her that she didn’t have to get in the water. But what she did instead was clamp her hand over the girl’s mouth to muffle her cries. She said something to her that I couldn’t make out, then went back to her chair on the deck. The girl finished the class, screaming with the same intensity the entire time.
This happened two weeks ago, and I’ve thought of it frequently since. And while it would be easy and convenient for me to blame the mother, the fact is it’s only partly her fault. Her child’s whole life she’s likely been told – by everyone from pediatricians to the media to well-meaning friends and relatives – that it’s important for her baby to separate, that she shouldn’t be so dependent, that she needs to be strong, that letting her cry would ultimately be good for her.
That mom has been lied to.
We’ve all been lied to.
Have you ever heard someone say (or perhaps you’ve said it yourself) “Oh, it broke my heart to hear her cry, but…” or “I hated listening to his screams, but…” and then go on to tell you why it was so important that the swim class be completed, or that day camp be attended, or that dental cleaning be performed? We have those gut feelings for a reason. They’re there to tell us to listen. As parents, we are biologically designed to respond to our children’s cries, not ignore them. It doesn’t feel right to hear our children cry and not attend to them, because it’s not. Yet somewhere along the way, someone decided that we should ignore our intuition, and ignore their cries. And society bought it. It’s the only way I can explain the fact that when I shared the story of the little girl in swim class, that while everyone agreed that the hand clamped over the mouth was not a nice thing to do, many didn’t seem to have an issue with a child screaming her way through the duration of the class.
“She’ll get used to it.”
“It’s a safety issue. Learning to swim is important”
“Lots of kids cry in the beginning.”
That’s society talking. And society lies. ‘
Will she get used to it? Maybe, maybe not. But is taking that chance really worth the damage it’s doing to your relationship with your child, who now knows you won’t always be there when she cries?
Is it a safety issue; must she really learn to swim? If she’s going to be around pools, of course. But there are other classes. Other teachers. Other methods. There is the simple option of waiting a couple of months to try again (a couple of months can make a huge difference in the readiness level of a toddler!) There is the option of helping her learn yourself, in her own time, in her own way.
Do lots of kids cry in the beginning? Sadly, yes… something I can surely attest to after watching 4+ weeks of classes now. But it doesn’t have to be that way. It happens because too many people have been conditioned to listen to a falsehood, to ignore their intuition, and to ignore their child’s cries.
What children need – what all of us need – is connection. Compassion. To feel like we are heard. We do not need to be separated from our parents, the people who love us most, from the moment we are born. We do not need to be banished to another room, forced to cry-it-out, “trained” to sleep through the night, ignored when we call for help. To do so is to go against our very nature as caring, nurturing adults. We are meant to respond to our children’s cries, not ignore them… whether they’re crying because they’re lonely, sad, hungry, or scared. Whether they’re crying because they’re not ready for swim lessons, unsure about the dentist chair, not wanting to get their hair brushed, or suddenly fearful of their car seat.
But wait, wait, you’re thinking, isn’t it inconvenient to find a different swim class? To brainstorm with the dentist, or to go to another one? To get creative, or adjust your standards, when it comes to tangles? To take the time to let your child regain his comfort in the car seat, even if it means staying at home for awhile? Is it really that big a deal? Yes, it really is that big a deal. Your child is that big a deal. Your relationship with your child is that big a deal. And you know what? Sometimes taking the time to listen to your child’s cries and coming up with a respectful solution is inconvenient. But no one ever said parenting was supposed to be convenient. And to be really blunt about it, what’s more important: your relationship with your child, or convenience? It’s not a matter of “picking your battles” either. You and your child are partners. You’re on the same team. Parenting should not be a battle.
Lastly, to get back to that title: Is is ever okay to let your child cry? Of course. Just like their adult counterparts, sometimes children need to cry. They’ll cry out of anger, sadness, frustration, and disappointment. Fear, exhaustion, pain, and overwhelm. Sometimes our job as parents is to just be there, to listen, to hold them if they want to be held, and to let them cry if they need to cry.
To make sure they know – beyond any shadow of a doubt – that their needs are real and that we, as their parents, will respect them.
This post was written as part of a joint project called Listen To Our Babies, Heal Our Nation. Be sure to visit our website to read more contributions from dozens of bloggers, parents, professionals, and concerned citizens.
I agree 100%. I am always saddened to read a friends fb post, asking advice for her baby or toddler because almost ever response is some form of cry it out because it’s for the best, it has to be done sometime. I always try and respond gently, from the child’s pov but usually people listen to the masses.
i agree too! i have so many stories of when i decided to love and nurture my crying child instead of forcing or making them do what society asks. even at my homeschool co-op people think i’m a little nutty for not making my 2, 3 or 4 year old go to a class. my 7 year old youngest hated the kindergarten class there. while others would force their kids in kicking and screaming he stayed with me or he stayed at home with my husband. my 18 year old hates the dentist. when he was 13 and had to have a filling he would not get out of the car. no amount of effort on my part would get him in there! so, i went in….told them he was not getting his filling and did they know of a dentist who would use anesthesia for the procedure. they looked at me like i was completely insane:). it cost me alot more…but there was no way i would make my kid do something that terrified them! anyway…our motto has always been “they will do it (whatever “it” is) when THEY are ready” and if they don’t…..who cares?!
p.s. THANK YOU for voicing how so many of us feel!
My 15 year old would be in the same boat with the dentist (he was *extremely* fearful as a young child) but we ended up finding a WONDERFUL pediatric dentist who is so respectful of her patient’s needs. The first time he had work done with them, he was put totally under. That progressed to conscious sedation, and then to laughing gas. Because they’ve been so kind and patient, never pushing, he is fine now with just a little novacaine. 🙂 I wish there were more dentists (and people, for that matter!) who worked that way.
Thank you for this post!!! I deal with a lot of this in the fall when little ones are in their first dance class. There are always a handful who are terrified and when I explain to the parent that the child may not be ready for a class they look so put out, like it is MY fault. Rarely I do have a parent try to work with me to make the experience enjoyable and not so scary, but usually the cries and screams are met with harsh words from the parent instead of compassion.
Oh Connie, that must be so hard as a teacher 🙁
I’ve always taken the gentle approach, even though my 9month old wakes up several times overnight and needs lots of reassurance to rest and take a nap, but that’s ok with me because I know that she needs me and that she trusts me. However yesterday a doctor told me to show some ‘tough love’, she said it’s for the best, controlled crying, but this is what I didn’t understand..
“it’s part of her becoming independent”!! Since when is a baby independent from their parents!? They are totally dependent, that’s why they are children and we are their caregivers, they depend on us.
“you’ll be teaching her a developmental skill”. Except you don’t teach development! They develop when they are ready, they walk when they are ready, they talk when they are ready. It’s our job to provide opportunity, not to force development.
I watched a movie called Babies, that show’s an african mother looking after her child, there was no tears, but the child was free to explore when they wanted or just hang out with mom, and this child was the most well adjusted and happy child. How did 1st world countries get it so wrong 🙁
It really is kind of amazing isn’t it? I think back to the *many* well-meaning people who have told me that my children needed to cry, and to me it just goes against our very nature. It’s very sad.
I agree and let me say that with having one typical kid and two sensory kids it is actually adventageous to try to de-escalate the issue s by hearing my children out before it gets to the point of inconsoleable forgetting I exist crying.
Love the article. It’s such an important message. I only wish it didn’t say “Lie”….this message has not been a lie – as lying implies deception. Instead, it’s a fallacy. I don’t believe anyone, clinicians included, have any bad intent (hence, the lie), I believe they just got it wrong (now, the fallacy.) I think the distinction is important.
Great point, Suzanne. Thanks for that. And I agree. I don’t believe anyone has bad intentions.
i agree with you and understand what you are saying. but, let’s not be so judmental. i really felt like i had no other choice but to sleep train my son. i was miserable and had to do it to survive after trying hundreds of other things. are you a better mom than me because you followed your instincts? be careful ladies, we are all moms here and we do have one common thing love for our children. so don’t judge me if i let my child cry at night and you didn’t! you aren’t perfect either.
Thank you Emily for your response. I am in the same boat as you. I feel that parenting is difficult enough without all of these judgements being thrown around for mothers who don’t “buy in” to attachment parenting 100%. Why can’t we all just support each other, even if we do things differently? What’s interesting is the theory that crying is so BAD. When did people start to believe that?!
Uh, no one’s saying crying is so bad, (crying is a wonderful way to release emotions) but that forcing or leaving someone to cry alone who clearly wants/needs comfort is wrong. Whether that’s a friend, a spouse, OR a baby/child.
Did you read the entire post? The last paragraph is to devoted to the fact that we ALL sometimes need to cry. Saying crying was bad was almost the exact opposite intention of this post! It’s their way of communicating. It’s certainly not bad.
Judgements are thrown both ways. The only difference is that one side’s children have better relationships with their parents. So you’re free to choose whichever you like.
Emily, please re-read my post if you think that I in any way said that I was a better mom than you. I certainly never claimed to be perfect, and have made many choices as a mother that I wish I could have made differently to be sure. When I hear people talk about those things now, knowing what I know, it hurts, because I so badly wish I’d made different decisions. But that doesn’t mean they’re judging me! They’re sharing information so that others don’t make the same mistakes. When you know better, you do better.
Wow….ok this post is obviously an opinion and while I don’t think the mom in this example was right….there ARE judgements being thrown….Flynn “its just one side has a better relationship with their children” REALLY???? My mom sleep trained me, listened to me scream while brushing my hair until she was fet up and made me cut it off (again kicking and screaming), and several other times I was left to cry….I now as an adult and even as a teenager have an extremely close relationship with my Mom, I live right next door spend most of the day while my husband is at work at her house and when I’m not there we’re texting or talking on the phone…..Now as for my kids they were both sleep trained and unless there is a storm have no problem sleeping in their own bed…why because we never let them sleep with us (again unless there was a storm) sure there was crying and countless nights of getting up and taking them back to bed BUT my kids are extremely well adjusted BECAUSE of all that my kids are 7 and 9, my 7 yr old is the more “scary” one he gets scared a lot easier than his sister ever did but he sleeps just fine by himself and even has no problem staying the night at a friends, while his friend the same age has attempted to stay over here and literally makes him self sick with separation anxiety. Some kids may just have more issues with this naturally BUT I know this Mom sleeps with her son every night and her husband sleeps in another room and many other things she does to promote his anxiety instead of trying to slowly help him get over it. This child doesn’t know how to handle his emotions while both my kids maybe get a little nervous but they work through it themselves. Our job is not to coddle our children but raise them into well adjusted adults…to prepare them for adulthood. My 9 yr old hates having her hair brushed and will throw a fit before I even start….what am I suppose to do???? Not brush her hair???thats not an option. I have made many mistakes as a parent but training my kids to deal with emotions isn’t one of them….BTW both my kids know and do come to me with any problems or issues they have and they know for dang sure I have their back always! Sorry but the comments toward Emily really really irritated me. I don’t have a problem with the blog post except that it is very one sided and all opinion but everyone is entitled to their opinion. .
Also before it’s brought up I am not talking about children with special needs, or that have a medical explanation for their behavior and those children obviously are going to need different things and tactics.
I wish you worked at the day care centre I work at! Yesterday, a little girl (nearly three) was sent to the Director’s office for having a tantrum. She was screaming, ignored by everyone, for at least half an hour. No one talked to her or offered comfort. Now, I work in a different room (the babies room) and I don’t know for sure why she was crying. But, I do know that the staff member who put her in the office believes in completely ignoring a tantrum or sending “naughty” toddlers to the office if they have committed some “crime” or another. Anyway, I think I will be printing out this post to put on the staff room table. I never, ever ignore the children in the babies room and guess what? They hardly ever have tantrums. They are loved unconditionally and they know it! Many of the people at the centre still hold the old fashioned belief that if a child is paid attention for being “bad” then the “bad” behaviour will continue. They try to wipe out any sort of negative emotions. Sad.
i have been a mom for 29 years and counting….. with our youngest 10 and 5 children…….. i have NEVER let my baby *cry it out* or toddler or child, or teen or adult child…… That has to be the worst advice i ever heard. I am so grateful motherly instinct took over ……… nurturing, cuddling, soothing, family bed, attachment parenting creates much kinder , gentler humans.
crying is always a NEED…. hopefully we know our sweet children enough to know their ques before crying~ as a last resort. If you meet a child’s needs before they even have to cry for what the need and want and desire….it is much more peaceful for the child and mother.
I agree to a point….but sometimes a good 5 minute cry when your baby is full, clean, and tired is okay. I know my kids simply cry to avoid sleep and after 5-10 minutes of crying, they are out! 🙂
Great article. I never let my 22 month Son cry for too long, or at all, if I can help it. It is traumatic for him and me if he is upset, and as his Mother I feel I must help him as much as I can. One day he will not be a little boy anymore and I cherish every moment – the good and bad. I am a stay-at-home Mum though, which makes this a lot easier to manage!
While I agree about not letting a baby “cry it out”, it appears that we part ways when it comes to older children. For a five year old to get out of having her hair brushed because she cried about it—that just seems foolish. If her hair isn’t brushed, the tangles will only become worse! Sometimes as a parent, we have to be able to help our children learn to tolerate short discomforts for long-term benefits. There are ways to encourage, comfort, and guide a child *through* a difficult experience. Allowing them to believe that they can refuse to participate in the things of life that are challenging or uncomfortable will only bring them to adulthood under false pretenses.
What you call foolish, I call letting my child have autonomy over her own body. 🙂 My point was not to “allow them to believe that they can refuse to participate in the things of life that are challenging or uncomfortable” but that I would respect their needs enough to help them come up with solutions, instead of forcing them through something when they are clearly telling me it’s not right for them.
Respectfully, I think you’re taking “autonomy over her own body” to a level that could become unhealthy. Our children are going to have to function in this world—a world that is not going to shift and adjust to their preferences and desires! We set them up for long-term failure and disillusionment if we teach them that we, and the rest of the world, will always find solutions to life’s dilemmas that are to their taste!
If we allow our children to determine what is “right for them”, we set them loose without enough guidance or training to make good decisions. My two year old would rarely eat vegetables if I let him determine what was good for him—but I, as an aware adult and as his parent (therefore having more information than he), know that he must have the nutrition that they provide. He may get to choose which two out of five options, but he does not get to decide that he won’t have any at all.
see i don’t see it that way. why is not doing something that makes you miserable a bad thing? and a 2-5 year old needs a different set of standards then say a 40 year old. seeing that they do not have much of any life experience and what they do know is that mama (or daddy) is there to protect them is more important to me than whether or not in 20 years they can deal with a crappy situation.
we get in such a hurry, like if at 5 they don’t know that life is gonna suck at times, we have failed as a parent. there is a big long life ahead of them to learn that sometimes stuff is just yucky. why on earth let them sob and shake at a swim lesson? what exactly are they learning at that moment?
as for food… if you keep in your house what you want them to eat then just because they don’t sit down to a big bowel of peas doesn’t mean they won’t get what they need. i have learned that over the last 18 years of parenting. will they like peas more if i shove them down their throats? or if i eat them and cont to serve them at meals and also have other things there they like, like maybe carrots and broccoli?
i mean i know there are things i don’t like to do or to eat and no one is forcing me to do them or eat them.
I couldn’t agree more. I had an aunt who would force her son to eat tomatoes and potatoes by slapping him behind the head to make him swallow. Well, guess what, today he’s 48 and he still hates tomatoes and potatoes!
i have grown children now , 29, 27, and 24 who are kind and gentle human beings. They meet the needs of those around them because their needs were met. They volunteer and love others deeply…….. and the not letting our children cry, family bed and being kind and gentle and meeting their needs caused them to TRUST.
Trust that i was there for them, and now in turn they are trustworthy themselves, loyal , devoted human beings that want to make this world a better place for all those they comein contact with. Attachment parenting creates security and peace. We are raising our 2 little girls that THE LORD gave to us in our 40’s the same way and it is a joy. They are 11 and 10. :o)
I agree with you. Sadly, I find it harder to live out in life. There have been times – at school (we now unschool) and Sunday School, where my children have cried and not wanted to be left. I found it difficult in some of those settings with 30 children looking at me, and the teacher in each of those situation pushing me out the door, to respond to my child’s needs. There was also the instance when one of the creche helpers scooped up my crying child and walked away with her, closing the door behind. I felt helpless and I know I should have responded differently but there is an enormous amount of pressure to conform to the idea that it is good for children to cry and ‘get over it’. And what makes it more difficult is that these adults are well meaning. They think they are helping us by taking charge of our crying children and sending us on our way. But it is not how we roll in our family.
Unfortunately, there is fall out to these situations. My children are used to us responding to their cries. They trust us to do this. When we didn’t do it in those environments, it made them feel that those places were unsafe and made it increasingly difficult to get them to go back. And in some instances, our kids haven’t gone back. That’s okay with us because we didn’t feel that it was worth their while anyway. Things that are worthwhile, we have made plans and worked towards solutions that are comfortable for all of us.
It is a long slow process to build the trust back again (for the place – they don’t seem to lose much trust in us, just in those environments), but having a plan has helped. I have had to explain to different people that we don’t believe in letting children cry and I have been looked at like I am ‘soft’ but I remind myself that the most important thing here is my relationship with my child and I need to not care how others perceive me.But the pressure does make responding to their cries hard and being a shy person also makes being assertive difficult. It is a learning curve for me and I am feeling more confident as time goes on.
Erin, I can relate to much of what you’ve said here. I didn’t start blogging until after I’d had my third child. With my first, while I pretty much believed in the same things, and parented the same way, I hadn’t yet found my “voice” for advocating for him. It makes me sad to think about it. Like you, I am a shy person by nature, and very introverted, so it didn’t come naturally to me. I had to learn it.
Yep, I am finding my voice. I still feel at times like I need to find it more, but I guess I get around that now by planning for situations. If I have a plan, I feel prepared. It is often facing new situations or something unexpected that I fumble the most.
I appreciate your blog. We have been on a journey that has resulted in us challenging everything we thought we knew a few years ago – about raising kids, about schooling and about church. I often feel like I am feeling around in the dark, but it is nice to read stuff from people who have similar ideas. Makes me feel less crazy 🙂
As someone that worked in a daycare I can say they weren’t pushing you out so your child could “cry it out” they were pushing you out because they know as all childcare providers know that 99% of the time as soon as Mom leaves the child stops crying and goes off and plays. It’s your choice to leave or not but just passing on the information as to why they would do that.
i always try and frame my children’s crying in how i would feel if it was me. what if i am just exhausted, sad, lonely, scared, and i am so upset that i cry and no one comes to help me out? that would suck so hard. i suffer from anxiety attacks at night (not every night, but at least once a month) and when it is super bad i cuddle up next to my husband, i wake him up, i need him to comfort me. i need him to hold me. sometimes i sob, sometimes i just lay there, but i need him. i can’t imagine if he ignored my needs. that would just be so horrible.
so i remember that when my kids are scared of stuff that in my mind just seems silly. because i am sure my anxiety seems a bit silly to my husband.
also, i have a son who has long lovely locks, but hates getting his hair brushed. so we found a brush that he likes, that doesn’t pull his hair and we let him do it. no tears. easy peasy.
i have been known to take my kids out of a class if they are freaking out. it isn’t fun for them or the other kids who are in the class. in fact it can be down right scary to have someone next to you in class sobbing and shaking. like, what do they know that i don’t? lol i figure they will come around another time. that is why i think it would be great if more classes for young children had a “free” sample class. so you could see if they liked it. i think sometimes the parents get frustrated because they spent a lot money for the classes and now the kid is not even in to it. or maybe the child asked to take the class, but once in it they are freaked out so now they HAVE to do the class because they asked to do it. i think we forget that small children are people, and they change their minds and get freaked out in new situations and it is ok to comfort them and sit with them and just be ok with skipping it until they are older.
but maybe that makes me a nutter. LOL
BTW, i just found your blog. lol i think i will have alot of reading ahead of me. 🙂
I really just can’t understand why we have to be so judgmental of others. I realize you may not have intended this post to be judgmental and I recognize that you clearly said crying is not always bad but reading this conveyed a message to me that mothers like the one who let her child cry in the swimming lesson are doing the wrong thing. This is an inherently judgmental message. It may not be the choice that you would make, and it is likely not the choice that I would make, but I have no idea why the mother of the child in this swimming class made the choice she did and I have no desire to condemn her for it. I am personally not a supporter of techniques like “cry it out” but I have zero need to do anything to make another parent feel guilty if that is the choice they make.
You do realize that this entire comment was you judging *me*, right? I think it’s interesting that it’s not okay if you perceive me as doing it, but it’s perfectly fine if you’re the one doing the judging. This post was about listening to our children. That crying child was a recent illustration of a child that wasn’t being listened to. It wasn’t about you, or me, or that other mom at all. If someone feels guilt (or feels the need to hurl stones at me) that’s a reflection of how THEY are feeling. I’m responsible for my own words – which believe it or not are measured very carefully as I write – but how people respond to it is up to them.
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Just found your blog, and am going through some of your (I suppose) older posts. Thank you for writing this- so many days I feel so alone when it comes to this topic!
This is also why the dental hygienist and I almost had it out one day – when she threatened my dd that she would have Mommy go to the waiting room if she continued to cry. To which I responded, “and she’ll be going with me”. And quite frankly, my dd and I were working through the why behind why she was crying and she was already in the process of calming down with me holding her hand and encouraging her.
He’ll Jen, I’m not sure if you’re still reading posts here, but I’ll post anyway :). First, I’m saddened that so many people took offense to your article. I did not. In fact what led me to investigate infant, toddler, and child swimming lessons is a video I received from a close friend who’s toddler was in her 4th or so week of “swimming” lessons. It actually sickened and saddened me. Screaming and crying the whole time, forced under the water by the “teacher” holding the child by the legs, then flipped over with face under the water! Once the poor thing managed to writhe around onto her back, she immediately resumed her frantic crying. It really was disturbing.
I did not teach my three teen sons using such aggressive and seemingly cold methods, and just can’t wrap my head around it. And some comments here, comparing this to letting a child cry themselves to sleep. It’s NOT the same as being forced into water! Water actually reduces oxygen intake! This forced type of water environment that I’ve seen can cause insecurity and intense fear, and can shock a child’s system.
At babyswimming.com, Rob and Kathy McKay discuss and demonstrate the years of success using a more child-centered, gentle approach. I don’t know them; I only today found their website because I was trying to find evidence of alternative methods of pool/water safety methods for little ones. I’d just urge parents and care givers to first understand the intent of this article, being about the methods of “training” little ones in water safety. I do think its a lie that the screaming child should be forced into the water using such aggressive methods, especially when there are PROVEN gentler methods.
None of my sons were forced to swim. It took time with patience to teach them necessary skills, but in a way that they were comfortable with. I would not be willing to let my sons think I was going to threaten them with lack of oxygen, “all for their own good”. When I see videos of this type of method, I see frightened, gasping, sometimes discolored infants and toddlers! Why, when there are better methods? I think because it costs so much and takes too much time to do it in a gentler way. I don’t think it’s worth it to skimp in this area. I also believe parents can do ALOT on their own in a safe and friendly manner, so children can acclimate to the process.
Please parents, overlook what you perceive to be a “judgment” from this article, and just think about how much you love your child. Heed the concerns. And know there are very safe and kind ways to train your little ones in water safety.
Well correction, this article was not about water safety, although the article focused on that. So for me, my initial response is regarding water safety. The matter of why children cry is multi-faceted. And no matter what, I listened to my babies and toddlers and even as teens, I listen to them today ( but they don’t cry in the same way ;). Yes occasionally I let them cry themselves to sleep as babies. Yes, one child threw a fit for days when we took away the pacifier ( and learned babies don’t need them and didn’t give one to our next baby :).
But I’d not ignore a baby. Or a toddler, or child, or young adult, or adult, or elder, if they are crying and/or upset.
And my “correction” corresponds to my initial response below. I’m not very good at this blogging :/
sexy legs mmm and beautiful girl
This is beautiful. “Yes, it really is that big a deal. Your child is that big a deal. Your relationship with your child is that big a deal. And you know what? Sometimes taking the time to listen to your child’s cries and coming up with a respectful solution is inconvenient”. As a counselor (and former swim class instructor;)) I can so relate to your story. It’s about trust. I remember beyond told to just dunk the kids underwater, even if they didn’t want to go. I never did that – I always made sure the child wanted to go under, and you know, it was such a better experience. They never felt forced, they were listened to, it was on their terms and their bodies and needs/wants were respected. I’m so glad there are people like you writing about topics like this. Thank you.
Beautifully written! Thank you! I just witnessed a similar (no hand to mouth though) and left heart broken and researching. Very Sad.